12: Unlocking School Success Through Self-Advocacy: Helping Children Navigate School with Confidence and Agency
Ever wondered why your child might be pretending to work instead of asking for help?
In this episode of Unlocking School Success, host Scotti Weintraub and special guest Lisa Smith, an occupational therapist and ADHD coach for parents, dive into the complexities of self-advocacy for kids in school.
They break down why kids might hesitate to seek help and share practical, friendly strategies to boost their confidence and competence in the classroom.
Discussing everything from understanding IEPs and 504 plans to role-playing at home and collaborating with teachers, this chat is packed with actionable tips. Tune in to learn how to make school a more supportive and enjoyable experience for your child.
Key Takeaways:
Guiding kids through school is tough - explore the complexities behind why children may hesitate to ask for help and offer actionable steps for parents to support their kids
Understanding School struggles - Tips include understanding school support systems like IEPs, engaging in role-playing scenarios, and teaching sentence starters
Parents need to be involved - The Importance of parental involvement and collaboration with teachers to create a conducive learning environment.
Connect with Scotti:
Transcript
12: Unlocking School Success Through Self-Advocacy: Helping Children Navigate School with Confidence and Agency with Lisa Smith
[00:00:00]
Lisa Smith: It's really about, helping them understand that, the best way that you can learn is when you feel safe. Confident and competent in the classroom.
Scotti Weintraub: Welcome to Unlocking School Success, a podcast with the smart strategies and support parents need to help their kids thrive. I'm your host, Scotty Weintraub, parent coach, school navigator, and your go-to guide for turning School Stress and Chaos into clear strategies that work. Let's get started.
Hello and welcome back to Unlocking School Success. It is my pleasure today to welcome a special guest. Lisa Smith is an occupational therapist and an A DHD coach for parents. Welcome, Lisa.
Lisa Smith: Hello. I am very excited to be here and have this very important conversation.
Scotti Weintraub: I asked you here to talk about kids and [00:01:00] advocating for themselves, and we'll get into that.
But first, can you tell me a little bit about what you do?
Lisa Smith: Sure. I am actually a school-based occupational therapist. I've been doing that for over 30 years, so I have worked with hundreds of kids with A DHD. I have a daughter who has a DHD who was diagnosed at 13. So it was one thing to work with kids who have it.
It's a whole nother thing than when you are living it day to day. After really combining those two things, I realized how in the dark parents are when it comes to resources and information once their child is diagnosed and there was not a lot of information out there for parents. And so I decided that I was going to create something and so I created a DHD on schedule and I help parents who have kids with A DHD navigate the, that, that whole process.[00:02:00]
Scotti Weintraub: I love this so much because I too came to doing this work when my own kids struggled and realized a huge gap in information and resources for parents. So I love that we both came to it in with a similar, heart in terms of our own kids, but now wanting to help other parents.
Lisa Smith: Yeah.
Scotti Weintraub: Yeah the question we're gonna be talking about today came from a listener and a listener in Colorado who asked me how do I get my child to ask questions and ask for help? And this might seem like a really simple question, but it's really a little bit more complicated.
Lisa Smith: It definitely is and just acknowledgement to the parent who is asking the question, because I think a lot of parents, and with no ill intention, really send their [00:03:00] kids to school and expect that their kids are gonna be able to self-advocate, or that the teacher is going to know exactly what their child needs at every moment.
And so they, they might not be very involved in this, kudos to the parent for wanting this for their child, and I think it is very complex because there are many reasons why a student of any age might be hesitant to reach out for help. And I'll talk about a few of those reasons. And then maybe we'll just backtrack a little bit because I think that's important in kind of having this discussion.
But when we're looking at some reasons why kids might not wanna ask for help, it might be because they feel embarrassed. They don't wanna be singled out, they don't wanna look different from anybody else in the class. Maybe they're a student who doesn't like to. Rock the boat at all. They don't want to bother the teacher.
They don't want [00:04:00] to seem like they're asking for something or they're breaking the rules so that part of it can come into play. Sometimes you have a child who doesn't quite even have the skills or the self-awareness to know that they need help. Or the help that, that they need. So especially when we're looking at kids who might have some sort of executive function skills or some learning difficulties, those things might be barriers for them to accessing that that help.
And lastly, sometimes kids might have had a bad experience in the past, whether it was with that same teacher or a year before where they did ask for help and maybe they were told, no, or maybe they were embarrassed or, felt shame and I'm not gonna do that again. So definitely a lot of different reasons.
Why now we can see why that is so complex because there's a variety of reasons and sometimes we have to tease out what those are. But I think before we can start like looking at [00:05:00] solutions and helping our kids in the classroom, I think we do need to take a few steps back. And for parents who are in this situation, I think the first place is for parents to be aware of what school supports their child actually does have.
If they have an IEP or a 5 0 4. Is the parent aware of what supports the student has? So usually those are things like accommodations and modifications. If so, have you shared those with your child? Does your child know what is in their IEP or their 5 0 4 plan? Now again, this will be different based on your child's age, but regardless of whether they're in kindergarten or in high school, there's some way that you can include your child in the supports that they have.
So if your child does have one of those structured supports, like an IEP or a 5 0 4, you can go through some, not through the whole thing, but just pick the parts where there is that those supports, those accommodations, those [00:06:00] modifications, and ask your child, does this seem like something that would help you?
When could you see this? You using this start that whole kind of collaboration and buy-in process with 'em, because if it's not something that they feel like that they are comfortable using, want to use, that's going to help them. They're not gonna advocate for it. They're, they have to have that buy-in.
That part is important. If your child doesn't have an IEP or a 5 0 4, but you're still thinking, my kid just needs, they need to advocate more, they need a little bit more support, they might need some more help. How do I get them to understand that? A good way to do that is just do a run through of the whole school day with your child.
Again, depending on their age and their attention level, it might not be something you wanna grill them with all in one session. Asking them, Hey, let's go through your school day and see what parts of it are easy and what parts might be challenging so we can figure out a plan for you of some [00:07:00] tools that you could use and things that you could do, and things you could say in the classroom when you do feel stuck.
So you might find going through those different parts of the school day that there's parts where your kid is oh no, that's easy. I love math. I love recess. And then you might get to something where they're like, oh, I hate ELA, or, oh, I hate recess. Oh, okay, tell me about that.
What? What parts of recess don't you like? What parts about it are hard? And so now, instead of. Just giving your child kinda like of a generic oh, you need to ask for help. Now you have some real specifics. You have times of day specific activities that they are having difficulty with, and if your kid is able to have that conversation now, oh, what do you think are some things that might help?
So that this isn't such a difficult time, or when you are stuck, what are some things that can help? So now you've gathered all of this important information to help make this a little bit more customized too to your child and [00:08:00] not quite cookie cutter or even generic where they, they don't know when to ask for help or what things they might.
Need help with. So I think that's the first part of it. And I can share an example. I think this is a good example Yes. Of
Scotti Weintraub: please
Lisa Smith: maybe what, just to give an idea of what maybe your child is experiencing for parents to understand. So as I said, I'm a, an occupational therapist and I was going to get a second grade student.
Typically she's outside at recess during that time, and I was going to get her for a makeup session and I went out and they said, oh, nope, she's in the classroom. She chose not to do her work, so she's missing recess. Okay. Again, not, that could be a whole conversation for another, we
Scotti Weintraub: could have a whole, we could have a whole episode about that.
I
Lisa Smith: know. Yeah. So I went back to the classroom. And the special ed teacher was in there with her and [00:09:00] she was doing a math worksheet. And I came in and I said, oh, it's her time for ot. I heard she was inside and the teacher said, yeah, she chose to doodle all over her paper instead of doing her math at work time this morning.
And she's if you wanna work with her to get this done, and then she can go to ot. I'm like, okay. So I look at the paper and there is doodles all over the place. And what the worksheet was it was clocks. And she had to look at the time that was on the clock and she had to write the time.
And so I sat with her and I said, I said what's going on? I said, you're not out at recess? No. And I said you know what happened? She's I don't. I don't know. I didn't do it. I'm like, okay, let's do it together. So I started counting with her to help her do it, and I realized she didn't know how to count by fives.
Oh, geez. So there's no way she could have done this. And I realized that she probably didn't have the skill to do it. And I said, was this hard for you? She's yeah. She goes, I don't know [00:10:00] how to tell time. And then I looked at the doodles and I said, tell me about all the, all your drawing.
She says I was. I was embarrassed. I didn't want kids to think I didn't know how to do it, so I was pretending to write on my paper, so it looked like I was doing the work. So just a really good example I think, of how this student. Already felt bad because she knew, yes, she was supposed to have known the skill.
She didn't wanna be embarrassed by her peers. She didn't want to get in trouble by her teacher. And so there she sat just doodling. And that would be a great example of when you would want your child to be able to speak up and say, I don't know how to count by fives, or, I'm not sure, can you show me how to do this again?
And at second grade, that can be hard, right? I think this is be hard at any grade.
Scotti Weintraub: Oh, it's so hard. I think this is such a, an impactful example because [00:11:00] here you have a student who desperately wants. To do well. Who is not trying to disengage? Nope. And not, being, sometimes we hear that the feedback, like they're being willful or obstinate or lazy, all of these negative things associated with when kids aren't able to get their work done.
But what you described is. By asking those few simple questions, and I think this is really important about what you've shared with us so far, is that we're really getting to the bottom of what is actually behind her reticence to ask for help. And in this case, it sounds like it was shame, lack of understanding and not really knowing what to do with those feelings.
Lisa Smith: And also, when we talked about the skills we have to remember too that a lot of kids especially neurodivergent kids, they aren't always consistent in showing their [00:12:00] skills. And this particular student. Also shared with me at a another time that, and actually I've heard many times teachers do this and I don't wanna blame or shame teachers because a lot of them really don't have, specific training in these things.
But you'll hear the comment like, oh, you did your math worksheet just fine yesterday, so there's no reason that you can't do it today. So that whole expectation that they're gonna be a hundred percent on all the time. Is hard. And it can be confusing for the child because maybe they're even thinking, geez, yesterday I did my math homework.
It's fine. And now, today I just, I can't remember anything. So again, to think of how embarrassed and reticent you might be to ask for help when maybe you've already shown that you've done something like that before.
Scotti Weintraub: Yeah. This is such an important reminder for us as parents that.
Just because something worked well once or was successful doesn't mean that it's always going to be the case. And I think [00:13:00] it's an important reminder about flexibility and meeting kids where they are on that day.
Lisa Smith: Definitely. Yeah. Totally agree.
Scotti Weintraub: You also mentioned something that I love too, about really asking those questions, and this is such an opportunity, I think, for parents if we shift, I called my business reframe parenting because I feel like if we start like looking at things in slightly different ways, it opens doors and in conversations.
So if we ask those questions, why do you, why were you doodling? To go back to your example? The student was able to tell you there's a reason why I was doodling. And, but that's the data as you mentioned, like that's the really valuable information. That's the, like gold you can find in this investigative work.
Yes. Then what do you do with that? But now you have this. Really valuable info to carry you [00:14:00] forward.
Lisa Smith: And that kind of, those gold nuggets, like you said, are the things that are most likely going to respond to like tools and strategies because they're tailored for that particular student.
And they're meaningful in the moment. It's not just something on a piece of paper that says, that your kid can have a fidget toy, or that they can have a break. Those things can be helpful, but if your child doesn't feel like that's gonna help them or they don't know how or when they need to use it.
Or they don't know how to ask for it. All of those things on paper look great, but aren't doing one look of good for your child. So the buy-in and having them as part of this process and the problem solving that you do with them in a very positive collaborative way. It's not, shaming or grilling them.
It's really about, helping them understand that, the best way that you can learn is when you feel safe. Confident and competent in the classroom. And these are tools that will help you to do [00:15:00] that. So then I think once you have all of those kind of gold nuggets, I think again, as a parent you can really help by.
You can do maybe some role playing at home with your child and talk about some of those times of day that are the trickiest for them, and do some little role playing of maybe how they can advocate and ask for some of those tools and supports. I think you can also help your child. I love coming up with like sentence starters.
So things that maybe just either one or two, or maybe if you have a child that's older, three different ways that they can start a sentence, something like when they go to their teacher, I learn best when I'm not sitting near the pencil sharpener because it, there's a lot of kids coming over and the noise is distracting me.
Another thing is, could you explain it in a different way? So instead of saying, I don't understand. Some kids don't like [00:16:00] to say because that makes them feel like, they're stupid. Saying it, can you explain it in a different way? Is another thing that I think is a really helpful thing to teach your child.
And then if you have a child that maybe needs more. Movement or sensory things, having your child be able to say, I could use a break right now so that I can come back and focus better. I'm having a hard time sitting and writing, this paragraph, can I go get a drink and come back so that, my body can have a break.
So just those sentence starters I think are really helpful tools so that your child isn't like just. Left with nothing. They could be sitting in class and thinking, oh geez, this would be a good time where I should use this. But I don't know. It's now the right time. My teacher's talking, do I wait till she's done talking?
And then I also do think it's worth talking about the importance of [00:17:00] not only collaborating with your child, but also of collaborating with your teacher so that teacher can best. Support your child and empower them to advocate for themself. And after you've done all of that pre-work with your kid, going through the school day, coming up with ideas, solutions, sharing that with your child's teacher.
Is really that key to bridge that because now if your child's teacher knows, and again, this is really age dependent, if you have a kid in elementary school, you're gonna wanna include the teacher a lot more. You're gonna wanna empower your kid a lot more if they're more in that high school, but including the teacher in that so that they know that those supports would be helpful.
Now they can be a part of that as well. Sometimes you also run into situations where your child might say something like, my teacher says things in front of the whole class and embarrasses me, or she puts my name on [00:18:00] the board, or, I get, I can't go to recess and this is where.
I think it's important again, to start with your child, yeah, that does sound really embarrassing. I wouldn't like that either. If you are distracted, what are some things that you would feel comfortable with your teacher doing that would help you get focused? Again, trying to problem solve that with your child so that they can go advocate for that, but also you can share that information with the teacher.
Geez, I was, talking to my son earlier and he really, shuts down when he's, in front of the class and he's the only one doing that. Is there a different way? He thought it might be really helpful if you just come and stood next to his desk and just tapped on it, twice.
That would be enough for him to know, again, hoping that the ideas are coming from your child or you giving them some choices and options and them being able to say, no, I don't like that one. Or, oh, that one might work.
Scotti Weintraub: These are such, all the different, these are [00:19:00] such great like practical tips and I love that you're also talking too about how to engage our kids in these conversations.
I did a podcast episode recently about when. Is a good time and when it's maybe not a good time to include your kids in school meetings. And I think it's an interesting thing to, to think about for parents. Is my child developmentally emotionally ready to be part of those conversations, which can sometimes be challenging.
Is, are they not yet? I love this phrase. Not yet. And I think you alluded to this too, right? If we meet them where they are, if they're not there yet, that's okay.
Lisa Smith: Yeah, definitely. And that just
Scotti Weintraub: gives us a chance to keep working on things. So I love that you gave us like really specific things and the conversation starters are, brilliant because they [00:20:00] just are so helpful. I hope that a parent listening to this can, jot down a couple of them and maybe think next time like, okay, I can ask a question because I have this a little prompt, and it makes it a lot easier.
Lisa Smith: And I think a good kind of like analogy when you're talking with your kids about this is, every classroom has that little map that's by the door, like when there's a fire drill or something.
It shows you a whole picture of the school and the arrows of the direction you go saying to your child, the tools that you can use to help yourself. Figure out and get unstuck are similar to that. It's just a plan. It's just things that tell you where to go. When you're having trouble with math, then you know, here's some things I could do to help me get unstuck.
It gives me like my own little map in my head of things that I know that I can ask for. So that school is. A much more enjoyable experience because for many of [00:21:00] kids kids with learning and, kids who are neurodivergent, school is not a very positive experience. So by doing this kind of like collaborative approach, I think it gives our kids a much better opportunity to finally have that experience of feeling a little bit more in control and just more confident that their needs are being met.
Scotti Weintraub: Yeah. Isn't, and it just strikes me that isn't that our bigger goal as parents to want our kids to feel confident and be able to navigate the world in ways that work for them.
Lisa Smith: Yeah, and that's why I think this is so important because what we're doing is we're teaching our kids self-agency, right?
We don't want kids that are completely compliant all the time. That is not going to set them up for the real world, right? If the teacher tells you to do something, not saying that you're teaching your child to, back talk or anything, but being able to [00:22:00] advocate for yourself and saying, actually, I learned best by doing this, or, I really do better with math if I can get up close to the screen and be on my stomach instead of sitting at my desk. That is not just these aren't like one and done conversation things. This is a lifelong skill, right? The more that you teach your child these things and the. The more you uplevel it as they go through the grades, the more you're preparing them for things later in life, like jobs and relationships and that is, that is just as important if not more so than their academic success.
So it's it's part of a journey that's a lifelong skill.
Scotti Weintraub: Yes. And. It also is so interesting to think about the fact that kids in school often don't have a lot of agency. As an adult, if you understand how your brain works, you can navigate using that [00:23:00] information. You can find jobs that work best for how.
You want to set up your life. You can find relationships in that way, but for kids, they're really stuck in a system that doesn't always meet them where they are. And that's another reason I think it's just so powerful for us to engage them in those conversations. Not only so that they learn how they learn best and can use that information going forward, but so that we can hopefully try to make a system that isn't always built for them a little bit.
Better for them along the way. Yeah.
Lisa Smith: Yeah. That's a great point because you're absolutely right that, school is designed almost in opposition of how many of our kids' brains work. And so if we can plant this seed of self-advocacy early and. Build on it and teach them how it can grow and flourish.
It's going to help them because, they're in school from kindergarten until 12th grade. That's a long time [00:24:00] to be in a situation where you feel like you don't have any control or any say or feel like you're not being supported.
Scotti Weintraub: Yes, it's. And especially when your child is struggling in school, it just, it can feel like a really long time.
Lisa Smith: Yeah, definitely. And sadly, when we think about so many kids especially as they go into junior high and senior high who have school refusal, school anxiety I really think, a lot of that stems from that feeling of being stuck and having no control. It's not a fun.
Way to spend six and a half hours every day for many years of your school career.
Scotti Weintraub: Yeah. And as parents, when we engage with them and asking these questions and then using that information, we're really, I think, modeling for them how to [00:25:00] problem solve. Yeah. And how to be, work towards being an adult who is also an advocate for themselves.
And so I always encourage parents to get curious and ask questions and do this work. And I think, when you have a student who says. For instance they didn't turn in their homework or they, they have a test coming up and they don't understand something, and then they just refuse to ask questions.
So if we're modeling like that kind of curiosity, it gets easier for them to start stepping into that too.
Lisa Smith: Yeah, definitely. And so many of the things that we've talked about today really are quite simple. They're not extra things, they're just things you can embed into, all already existing life and daily experiences.
So it's not that it's necessarily hard, it's just that sometimes parents don't know. All of those tools and [00:26:00] strategies. And so having conversations like this I think is so helpful because we started the conversation with a question about, a parent asking how her child can advocate for themself more in school.
And I think we can see. That it's not as simple as that, and that it doesn't just happen in that small little area of the classroom that it's much bigger than that. And the bigness part of it really comes from us as the parents, even though we're not at school with 'em, there's so much we can do outside of those school hours to help prepare them.
And modeling is such a simple thing. You just do it and your kid just watches you do it and sponges after a while, they absorb what they see.
Scotti Weintraub: Repetition. Is really useful. So if a parent is listening right now, what is one thing that you think if they're shaking their head as I am, as you're talking, that they could do right now or in the very near future, to try to move them towards that [00:27:00] kind of understanding that we're talking about.
Lisa Smith: I think it would be, have a conversation with your child, whether you are, listening to this before school starts, or it's just started, or you're in the middle of a school year. I think asking your kid questions in a very thoughtful way instead of, just how was your day? Things like, how did your English project go?
How is lunch? Asking questions about how. Their school day is, and if they start hearing their child for lack of a better word, complain or start saying, I don't I don't like lunch, or I hate, recess, or, I don't like my teacher. That is the time to have a conversation with your kid.
Maybe not in the moment when they're heated, but store that away and at a time when you have some one-on-one time, it's very chill and relaxed and you're both regulated. It's a great time to just bring your child into the conversation. I think that's where all the good stuff really [00:28:00] starts.
Scotti Weintraub: That is a beautiful way for us to wrap up our conversation.
Yes. That's where the beauty of the connection happens is in, as you said, asking questions and listening and modeling. So thank you so much, Lisa. But before we go, I always like to ask my guests to share a resource that could be a book or a podcast or a website that you think might. Parents might find useful if they're listening into this conversation.
Lisa Smith: Yeah, I have two one is a book by Cindy Goldrich. It was one of the first ones that I started looking at. She does all things with school and classrooms and has a focus on a DHD and neurodivergence. And she has really great practical tips. Cindy Goldrich the title has something to do with the classroom.
And then for parents who have kids with A DHD, I always recommend Dr. Russell Barkley. He has books specifically [00:29:00] for parents related to kids, and he also has a YouTube channel. I just he's very no-nonsense, very practical tips. And he has done decades of research and so he is definitely a wealth of information.
Scotti Weintraub: Excellent. I will be sure and link to both of those in the show notes so folks don't feel like they have to write them down right this minute. If people are interested in learning more about what you do to help parents, specifically around A DHD, where can they find you?
Lisa Smith: Yeah, you can go to my website.
It's a ADHD on schedule.com. There are several free resources there for a variety of different things especially if you're looking for school support. I have an A DHD Essentials guide, which is great to even print out and share with the teacher. So that's the best place to go to see what free resources you might wanna get started with and if you wanted to do anything more in depth, there's [00:30:00] information on that there too.
Scotti Weintraub: It's been such a pleasure to have you and I appreciate you sharing your perspectives and all of your great information and tips with parents who are listening in. Thanks for being here.
Lisa Smith: Yeah, it was a great conversation. Thank you so much for asking me.
Scotti Weintraub: And with that, we're gonna say goodbye to this episode of Unlocking School Success, and we'll see you next time.
Thanks for tuning in to Unlocking School Success. If you're finding these episodes helpful, please hit follow, leave a review, or send it to another parent who's also navigating the school maze because no one should have to figure this out alone. You'll find full show notes at reframeparenting.com/podcast and you can come say hi on Instagram @ReframeParenting
Thanks again for listening. See you next time.
